Is God in control?
I missed this piece by the good Bishop Bob, where he essentially questions the popular reformed understanding of God's sovereignty. I have a pretty "high" view of God's sovereignty, not quite Arthur Pink, but I'm right up there. It's also a doctrine I take comfort in. At the same time, I'm mindful of the problem that you run across with some Calvinists essentially calling "evil" good. Piper runs perilously close to this pretty frequently. And you can end up with a picture of God crying crocodile tears over events He has engineered, whereas the Bible shows us a God who is genuinely grieved by sin and hurt. So I'm still struggling with this issue a bit.
That said, I don't think that running God's sovereignty down actually helps you out. If you say, "God didn't will that car accident", you still have to explain why God allowed the accident to happen, why He chose not to intervene. If you keep pushing in that direction, you will eventually have to conclude that God couldn't stop the car accident, and perhaps didn't even know it was coming. This is where the open theism guys ended up - to pay them their due, they took their reasoning to it's logical conclusion.
I'll be honest and say that I'm a little uncomfortable with the Bishop's piece. Then again, it's sometimes good to be made uncomfortable...
7 comments:
I'll stick with the orthodox view of God's sovereignty, thanks. Rob's thoughts create more problems than they solve. He's made the same mistake as the hyper-Calvinists, except in the other direction.
Why is it so hard for people to just let Biblical truths sit, and not try to reconcile them in some way? Rob wants to reconcile God's goodness with His sovereignty this side of heaven, which is a ludicrous thing to do. Isn't the point of the eschaton the vindication of God?
Oh, and another thought - to say that evil and suffering are meaningless is anti-Christian.
Night!
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
(Jas 1:2-3)
More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
(Rom 5:3-5)
I'm with you Craig - I reckon that if you can't agree with "God is in control" then you've introduced 'risk' into God. And that's a big, big, big problem which leads down a slippery, slippery, slippery slope. Not to mention the question about whether you've stepped outside the calvinist camp!
It's interesting, I'd been reading Paul Helm's book on Providence (in the Contours of Christian Theology series), in which he shows the multifaceted nature of God's control. I'm hoping to post up on my blog about it soon!
When I look at some of my own trials over the years, I've taken great comfort in the thought that there is a meaning to it, that it is not just senseless suffering.
Vaughan said : Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
(Jas 1:2-3)
More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
(Rom 5:3-5)
That's all well and good for those who are still alive and suffering.... what good does the trial and suffering do for the dead person? If they're on their way to hell because they didn't repent in time for their use as a "trial" and "object of suffering" is it still an acceptable loss because OTHER people suffered?
I must admit that sentence may not be as..... coherent as I want it to be, thanks to a certain Mr. Vodka, but hopefully someone gets the gist of what I'm saying.
With work I really don't have time to check for replies and whatnot but funtimes to be had all round ^^
That's all well and good for those who are still alive and suffering.... what good does the trial and suffering do for the dead person? If they're on their way to hell because they didn't repent in time for their use as a "trial" and "object of suffering" is it still an acceptable loss because OTHER people suffered?
Well, to be clear, people don't go to hell for "not repenting in time." They go to hell because they have sinned against a holy God.
And the suffering and trials in question are not the just suffering of hell, but suffering and trials which seem unjust (persecution, tragedy etc.). Hell is a just punishment for sin.
I must admit that sentence may not be as..... coherent as I want it to be, thanks to a certain Mr. Vodka, but hopefully someone gets the gist of what I'm saying.
I hope I did :)
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